KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: warning signs. A new NBC News poll shows an overwhelming majority of voters have concerns about President Biden and former President Donald Trump.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I got the job done. I got it done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As the GOP candidates get ready to debate for a second time without Trump, will any of them be able to break through?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I don’t think we need people who are in it for themselves seeking retribution.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll ask former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie why Trump is still dominating the party. Plus: shutdown risk. House Republicans struggle to agree on spending bills, and now another government shutdown is just days away.
SPEAKER KEVIN McCARTHY:
This is a whole new concept of individuals that just want to burn the whole place down. It doesn’t work.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
House Republicans continue to be in the midst of a civil war.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will Speaker McCarthy turn to Democrats for help? I’ll talk to Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. And: taking bribes. Democratic Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey resisting calls to resign.
DAMIAN WILLIAMS:
The Senator and his wife accepted hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Federal agents found gold bars and cash stuffed in envelopes hidden in the senator’s clothing. How damaging will this be for Senate Democrats? Joining me for insight and analysis are NBC News Chief White House correspondent Peter Alexander, Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour and Leigh Ann Caldwell of The Washington Post. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. Here in Washington, dysfunction is on full display. The federal government is careening toward a shutdown just one week from today with no deal in sight. As one top House Republican lawmaker told me overnight, quote, “It appears that’s where we’re headed.” As hard-line Republicans dig in on their demands for deep spending cuts while threatening to replace Speaker McCarthy, who warned this week they want to, quote, “Burn the whole place down.” Democratic Senator Bob Menendez is resisting calls to resign after being indicted for allegedly taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes to benefit the Egyptian government. Prosecutors releasing stunning photos, including wads of cash they found stuffed into a monogrammed jacket when they searched the Menendez home, gold bars and a Mercedes Benz. The indictment appears to undercut Republican allegations of a two-tiered system of justice. But it could also make it more difficult for Democrats to make a contrast with former President Trump, who’s been indicted four times. In just days, Mr. Trump’s Republican rivals will try to make their own contrast at the second Republican debate at the Reagan Presidential Library. But is it too late to break through? Our brand new NBC News poll shows they have an uphill climb. I am joined now by national political correspondent, Steve Kornacki, to take us through all of the numbers. Steve, it’s so great to have you here. A lot of headlines in this new poll.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, Kristen. You mentioned an uphill climb for these Republican opponents of Donald Trump. Let’s show folks from our new poll exactly how steep it is. Look at this, Donald Trump –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
– brand new national poll of Republican primary voters. Nearly 60% support the former president. His nearest rival, Ron DeSantis, more than 40 points behind him now. Obviously, you can see here, nobody else in single digits. And look at the movement too from the start of the summer. We polled this back in June. Trump seemed to have a dominant lead then. It has only gotten more dominant, from 43 now. It was not even 30 in June. And you can see here, we asked the question. I think this gets to the heart of it. We asked Republicans, “Should Donald Trump be the leader of your party?” And now nearly 60% say yes. It wasn’t quite 50 at the start of the summer.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Steve, and what’s so stunning about this number, a lot’s happened since June. We’re talking two more indictments against former President Trump, so four in total, and the first GOP primary debate. And yet, Mr. Trump is just solidifying his lead with GOP voters.
STEVE KORNACKI:
And – and Kristen, you know this from talking to Republican critics of Trump, from rival campaigns. Everything you just explained, they thought would take him down a peg this summer. And instead he has only moved up here. You can see the numbers saying the party needs a new leader. That has gone down. So for – for Donald Trump there, nothing but good news.
And it raises this question: If Republicans go forward and nominate Trump again, this is what the rematch in our poll would look like –
KRISTEN WELKER:
A dead heat.
STEVE KORNACKI:
– right now: 46% 46%. And you remember, in 2020 Joe Biden actually won the popular vote by more than four points. And how about this: DeSantis, who sort of pitched himself as the electable version of Trump to Republicans fares worse against Biden than Trump does. We also tested Nikki Haley, the former UN Ambassador. She actually leads Joe Biden by five in our poll.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is notable because she had such a strong showing in the first primary debate. Could that be the reason we’re seeing this bump, Steve?
STEVE KORNACKI:
Possible. Let’s put a pin in this one, though, because one thing our poll found, she’s not nearly as well-known as Trump and DeSantis. So more attention, more scrutiny, more attacks. Would this hold up? We’ll see. But obviously the fact that the President is struggling this much against every Republican we put him up against raises the question: where is that coming from?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
STEVE KORNACKI:
The most obvious answer is just the simple question of job approval. Barely 40% approve –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
– of Joe Biden’s performance.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we have to note: 56%, that’s the highest disapproval rating for President Biden since he took office. That’s significant.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah. So let’s take a look at what’s driving that too here. And one big area, no surprise, it is the economy. Look at this contrast. This is April of ’21, months after Biden took office. Nearly half the country was satisfied with where the economy was then. Now, barely one in four Americans satisfied with the economy. There’s also this: we found an enthusiasm gap between the two parties. We asked folks, “On a scale of one to ten, how enthusiastic are you about the presidential election?” And you can see Republicans and Democrats, there is a gap right there. Where’s the lag for Democrats? We found a couple places. Non-white voters, you could see significantly less enthusiastic than white voters. And then how about this age gap? The youngest group of voters who Democrats have been trying to get excited and motivated, a 50 point – nearly 50 point gap there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So really, an uphill battle to try to make sure voters don’t stay home if you’re Democrats.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Yeah, that’s it. And the problem for Democrats too – the lack of enthusiasm about the election. There’s clearly a lack of enthusiasm about the President himself because we asked primary voters on the Democratic side, “Do you want options next year besides Biden?” 59% said yes, they do. This is not a normal number for an incumbent. We asked the same question the year before Donald Trump sought reelection of Republicans. Only 37% wanted more choices then. That’s a very high number.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, this is, like, the inverse of each other, these two numbers.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Exactly. And so yeah, it raises the question too, what else concerns Democrats? And I think this gets to sort of the elephant –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wow.
STEVE KORNACKI:
– in the room here. Biden’s age and fitness. I mean, look at this contrast. We have talked so much about Donald Trump, the indictments, the legal woes. They are clearly a major or moderate concern to the majority of Americans. But Biden’s age and fitness for office, almost three out of four in our poll. This is Democrats, Republicans, Independents say it’s a major or moderate concern for them. How about Trump? He’s only a few years younger than Biden. A full 27 point gap right there. This is looming as a major problem for the president too.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s notable because his strategy is to try to laugh off concerns about his age. We’ll have to see if they revisit that strategy. All right, fascinating stuff. Steve Kornacki, thank you so much.
STEVE KORNACKI:
You got it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, as Republicans prepare to debate in California on Wednesday night, Mr. Trump’s opponents are taking him on for not showing up.
[START TAPE]
FMR. VICE PRES. MIKE PENCE:
I think it’s a missed opportunity for Donald Trump, and I think it’s a missed opportunity for Republican voters.
GOV. RON DESANTIS:
He owes it to people to – to make the case and to defend his record. You can’t be just not showing up to these things.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is former New Jersey Republican Governor and presidential candidate, Chris Christie. Governor Christie, welcome back to Meet the Press.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Kristen, it’s great to be back. Thank you so much for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Absolutely. Well, let’s delve into these numbers. You see there former President Trump is solidifying his lead with GOP primary voters. You’ve been in this race since June, Governor. Why aren’t you gaining more traction?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well Kristen, look, I know you all spent a whole lot of money on national polls, so I don’t mean to go after the polling folks. But the fact is that national polls don’t matter. We don’t have a national primary. If you look at Donald Trump in the latest polls in both Iowa and New Hampshire, the two earliest states, he is barely at 40% in Iowa, and he is under 40%, at 34% and at 38%, in New Hampshire. That means that between 60% and 65% of Republican voters in those two very important early states want an alternative. And in those – in places like New Hampshire, I’m in second place behind Donald Trump. So you know, this whole race is going to change when people actually vote, Kristen. And no offense to any poll that comes out now, but if it’s a national poll, if we don’t have a national primary, I don’t spend more than three minutes thinking about it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let’s talk about New Hampshire. You’ve obviously been very focused on New Hampshire. As you say, your polling is better there. But Governor, how do you win a 50 state race focusing on just a few states?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, look, Kristen, you understand the way this works. You’re very experienced at this. The whole race will change when Iowa happens, and the race will change in New Hampshire. And I’m telling you that if I beat Donald Trump in New Hampshire, and I plan to do so, that his sense of invincibility, his sense of inevitability will go away. And there are a lot of Republicans in those numbers, even in your national numbers, who are going to be with Donald Trump just because they think he really is the only alternative to Joe Biden. When I beat him in New Hampshire, folks are going to know he’s not the only alternative to Joe Biden. And we’ll do it just the way, by the way, Joe Biden did in 2020. You remember quite well, he lost Iowa and New Hampshire. Everyone said he was dead. He won South Carolina and went on to sweep Super Tuesday states in places where he didn’t even have an organization and never spent one day campaigning. Momentum is everything in this race. I’ll establish it in New Hampshire.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I understand. One of the big arguments, as you’re making, is that Donald Trump cannot win a general election. That’s something that we’ve heard from a lot of your rivals as well. And yet, our poll shows that he is in a dead heat with President Biden. Do you need to shift your strategy at all, and will we see that on display on the debate stage on Wednesday, Governor?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well look, my strategy is not based alone on electability against Donald Trump. Donald Trump made a bunch of promises. I was on that stage in 2016, Kristen. He made a bunch of promises to fellow Republicans and then fellow Americans in the fall and didn’t deliver. He said that he was going to repeal and replace Obamacare. And even with a Republican Congress, he failed. He said he was going to build a big, beautiful wall across the entire border of Mexico. He built 52 miles of new wall in fall years, and the Mexicans haven’t paid their first peso towards it. By the way, if he goes at that pace if he got a second term, he’d only need another 110 years as president to finish the wall.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Governor, you –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Lastly, and I think most importantly –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Go ahead.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
– Kristen, he said he’s going to balance the budget in four years and he added $7 trillion to the national debt, the worst record of any president in four years in American history. He broke his promises to the voters, and we’re making a case on that much more than we’re making it on electability.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet Governor, you supported him for reelection despite everything you are saying. And I want to focus on your background with President Trump. You were the first major Republican to endorse him back in 2016. You stood by him through a number of controversies, from the Muslim ban to the Access Hollywood tape, Charlottesville. What do you say to voters who hear you now calling him an ugly, divisive, horrible autocrat, and now feel like they’re getting whiplash?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well, they shouldn’t feel like it, because I’ve explained it really well. First off, I supported him in 2016 because he was going to be the nominee, and because I didn’t want Hillary Clinton to be President of the United States. And I make no apologies for that. I still don’t want Hillary Clinton to be President of the United States. But I broke from the president very clearly, from President Trump, on election night 2020. When you stand before the American people, behind the seal of the President in the east room of the White House, and say the election has been stolen when it wasn’t, and there’s no evidence to prove that it’s stolen now nearly three years later, that to me was the disqualifying moment for Donald Trump. He’s continued to do that and worse since then. And so you know, listen, American elections are about who’s left to vote for. And I made the decisions I made then. And Donald Trump left me, I didn’t leave him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Christie, let me press you on that, though. Because as you know, that was not the first time that Donald Trump had claimed an election had been stolen. He claimed that 2016 in Iowa was stolen when Ted Cruz won. He said that there were claims of fraudulent elections throughout the 2020 election. So this has been a pattern with him. I guess the question is, why didn’t you take a stand back then?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Well, I did take a stand when he said Iowa was stolen. I was on the stage and said that he – that was untrue, that Ted Cruz had won it –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you helped prepare him for a debate in 2016 against Hillary Clinton when he said he wouldn’t accept the election results, Governor.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
He didn’t say – well look, Kristen, the fact of the matter is that I didn’t want Hillary Clinton to be President of the United States. And this is much different, much different. When you’re President of the United States and people think you actually know something, know something they don’t know, because you’re President of the United States, that’s what made what he did in 2020 so destructive. And we know from looking at what’s happened since then that a lot of American people believed it because he was President, because they thought he knew things they didn’t know. That goes much further than anything you just mentioned, and by the way, will not be the determinative thing in this election either. But people need to look at that history like I did, and that’s why I broke from him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Christie, let’s move on to Senator Menendez. Do you think his indictment undercuts the Republican argument that there are two tiers of justice in this country?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I’m glad that the Justice Department acted, and they acted on some very horrific facts. Look, I did this Kristen, as you know, for seven years as the U.S. attorney in New Jersey, the fifth largest office in the country. We did 130 corruption cases and never were defeated. So I know a bit about this. There is no way that any public official has any legal, or plausible, or ethical explanation for having $500,000 in cash stuffed in jackets and envelopes throughout their home, gold bars that have the fingerprints, DNA of someone who you were attempting to fix the system for. I commend the Southern District of New York for doing the right thing. And by the way, I do not believe the whole Department of Justice has done things that were wrong. I believe what David Weiss did in Delaware was wrong with Hunter Biden, and it gave people the sense that there were two tiers of justice –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, okay, Hunter Biden has –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I’m glad to see the Justice Department doing –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– now been indicted. But let me ask you point blank, would you run against Senator Menendez–
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Only after pressure, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you run against Senator Menendez if you don’t win in the fall?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
No, I have no interest in being in the United States Senate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You rule it out completely?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Yes. I have. I have throughout my entire career. I had a chance to appoint myself to the United States Senate, Kristen, in 2013 when Frank Lautenberg passed away and I was governor. If I didn’t appoint myself to the United States Senate, the easiest way to get there, I sure as heck am not going to run for it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me get your take on what’s happening on Capitol Hill, the other big story. The fact that we’re careening potentially toward a government shutdown. Do you think Speaker McCarthy is showing strong leadership in this moment, Governor?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I think Speaker McCarthy is managing a very difficult caucus under very difficult circumstances, and doing the very best he can. And we’re going to see. He’s paid to deliver results, and we need to find a way to avoid a government shutdown. It will be bad for the economy, it’ll be bad for the American people –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think his speakership survives, Governor –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
And by the way –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does his speakership survive?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
I do. I think Kevin McCarthy will continue to be speaker through the 2024 election. And then if he’s speaker in January of 2025, I look forward to working with him as President to try to solve some of the problems that Joe Biden has created, and solve some of the problems that Donald Trump didn’t solve even though he promised he would. And I’ll say this, Kristen, you started off with some of the debate stuff. And I’m looking forward to Wednesday night. I’m looking forward to continuing to make my case there. It is, it is unfortunate and selfish that Donald Trump’s not going to be there. But I want to keep staying on that stage going forward. People should go to ChrisChristie.com, donate so that when Donald Trump does show up I’m the one there waiting for him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me get in one more thought here. One of the big sticking points is over Ukraine aid. I know you have been very robust in saying that that should continue. But let me ask you, on the subject of Ukraine, when you said that Donald Trump, in his first impeachment, for threatening to withhold military aid for Ukraine until President Zelenskyy agreed to announce an investigation into Joe Biden, you said back then that Donald Trump’s actions were, quote, “A laudable public policy goal.” Last month you said, quote, “Donald Trump blackmailed them over their military aid in an attempt to get dirt on Joe Biden.” Which is it, Governor?
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
It’s the latter. And we learned much more –
KRISTEN WELKER:
What changed? What changed Governor –
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
– from when I first said that – Kristen, we learned a great deal between when that comment was made, which is when the phone call was first released, to what we’ve learned now. And that’s the most important thing about someone who’s running for president. What you need to do is to make sure that when you get all of the facts, you don’t stay handcuffed to something that you said when you didn’t know all the facts. And when you learn all of them, you make sure you lay it out, and you let people know. Look, I did that based on what I knew then. Now that all the facts are out, we know exactly what he did. And by the way, he’s also made very clear that he didn’t want to be supportive of Ukraine anyway, Kristen. And he’s made that clear by making clear he’d turn Ukraine over to Vladimir Putin in 24 hours if he became president again. That’s not the kind of person we want in the Oval Office. That’s the kind of person who will destabilize Europe and will destabilize the world by America not being a leader.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, we know that Ukraine will be front and center on the debate stage this week. We’ll be watching closely. Governor Chris Christie, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.
FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE:
Kristen, thanks for having me on. I look forward to being back.
[09;19;51;01]
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. We do too. Thank you. And when we come back, it’s chaos on Capitol Hill with just days left before a government shutdown. Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Speaking at the Congressional Black Caucus dinner last night, President Biden took on the issue Democrats say is his top vulnerability.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
So, I’m running again. And you may have noticed a lot of people are focused on my age. Well, I get it. Believe me. I know better than anyone. But there’s something else I know. When I came to office, this nation was flat on its back. I knew what to do. I vaccinated the nation and rebuilt the economy. I wish I could say the threat to our democracy has ended with our victory in 2020, but it didn’t. Our democracy’s still at stake.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
This, as our new poll shows the president’s approval among Black voters is down 17 points since the first year of his presidency. Mr. Biden is also down by double digits among Latinos, voters without a college degree, and independents. And as we mentioned, 59% of Democratic primary voters tell us they want to see a challenger to President Biden. I’m joined now by a co-chair of the president’s 2024 campaign, Democratic Congressman Jim Clyburn of South Carolina. He is of course also assistant Democratic leader in the House. Congressman Clyburn, welcome back to Meet the Press.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Thank you very much for having me back.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s delve into some of these numbers. Our poll shows that President Biden is in a dead heat with former President Trump, who has been indicted four times. Why is that?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, I think the American people are focused more on style than substance. And that is the way it is in politics. Joe Biden is a man full of substance. The style is something you get from another candidate. You won’t get it from him. He believes in the democracy. He believes in the American dream. And he does what he possibly can to help people fulfill that dream and maintain this democracy. And that is not the kind of stuff that you poll very well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Congressman, our poll shows that the vast majority of Democrats want to see a challenger to President Biden. Is he the strongest candidate for 2024?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
I think he is the strongest candidate. And I believe very strongly that the American people believe that as well. When you are out this far, I remember back, what was it 2010, 2012? We got shellacked in 2010. And in 2012, all the polls I saw said Obama had no chance of getting reelected, that Democrats wanted an alternative to Obama. What happened in 2012 is now history. He won very comfortably. And I think the same thing will happen here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, as you know, in a close election every single vote counts –
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Absolutely.
KRISTEN:
– and as we laid out his support among some of his core groups, African Americans, Latinos, young voters has dropped. How do you make sure they don’t stay at home, Congressman?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
They will not stay at home. We understand what’s at stake here. The problem with me is I spend too much time studying history. And I see what’s going on here. I know where the playbook came from that resulted in January 6th. It came from the 1876 elections, almost exactly. Names and places, the same stage, alternative electors. They had a scheme put together with a playbook that came out with that election. Now that people are beginning to focus on that – and let me say something else. I was in that hall last night. I’ve been around here all week with African Americans coming in from all over the country. If you think that he has lost 17% of support among African Americans, you just have another thing coming. He is not in any trouble with African Americans in this country, I guarantee you that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, let’s turn to Vice President Harris. Do you see her as the future of the Democratic Party?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
I see her as a part of that future, absolutely. I see her –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is she the future though? Is she the future of the Democratic Party?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Oh, she could very well be. I think she is running a very good campaign. Her speech last night was great. And I look to her as a successor to this president. But I also know the history of that as well. It’s not a given. You don’t automatically move up. She’ll have to compete going forward with whoever may have dreams and aspirations. And I think she will equip herself well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I know that you’re saying you don’t look at the polls too much. But our poll does show her favorability is actually lower than President Biden and even than former President Trump. Why do you think she’s not resonating more with voters? What do you think the issue is?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Because when you compare the first woman of color and first woman to be vice president of the United States, and compare that to all of the history before, you will get that. I think that during this campaign, she will demonstrate, as she did in that hall last night, that she knows exactly what she’s doing. She has the capacity and the capability to be president of the United States if called upon to do so.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s move on to what is happening where you spend your day every day on Capitol Hill, and the potential government shutdown that is looming. It seems like, based on my conversations overnight, talking to Republican sources, they are no closer to reaching a deal. Now there’s some action in the Senate, potentially to try to get something that Democrats and Republicans can support. Tell me what you and other Democrats are specifically doing to try to avoid a shutdown here, Congressman.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, we believe, we Democrats, believe very strongly that when you make a deal, you live by it. And the speaker made a deal to what the budget would look like. Democrats agreed to it. House Democrats, Democrats in the Senate, even Republicans in the Senate agreed to it. They have marked up to those top lines. And then all of a sudden, McCarthy seemed to be backing away from the deal because five or six people on his side of the aisle seemed to be calling the shots. The tail wagging the dog is not the way you do this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Understood. But don’t Democrats, given that it’s a potential government shutdown, bear some responsibility? Is there any conversation? Are you having conversations behind the scenes to try to keep the government open?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, Hakeem Jeffries is. He is a great leader, and I think he’s doing exactly what needs to be done to keep the lines of communications open.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As we sit here today, do you think the government will shut down? Is it a foregone conclusion at this point?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
It is not a foregone conclusion. And I don’t think we’ll get to that point. I certainly hope not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about Senator Menendez, obviously indicted, as we’ve been talking about throughout the hour. Should he step down?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
I’m leaving that up to Democrats in New Jersey. They have a Democratic governor.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you’re a Democrat, Congressman –
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Doesn’t this cast a cloud potentially over your party at a critical moment? Should he step down?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
I don’t think so. We have to compare apples to apples. And when you compare apples with apples, I don’t think you compare a United States Senator to the president of the United States. That’s a big, big difference.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Despite the fact that you have a long list of Republicans – of Democrats who are now calling on him to step down, despite the fact that he’s been accused of taking bribes to help Egypt? Again, innocent until proven guilty, but these are serious allegations.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
They are serious. And I read them. And I hope they are not true. I hope there’s an explanation. He says there is. I would like to hear it. But I’m going to leave it up to him and his friends among
the Democrats in New Jersey.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the impeachment inquiry that is going to unfold this week on Capitol Hill. I know that you and your fellow Democrats have called this pure politics. But big picture, they are trying to see if there’s any link between Hunter Biden and the president in Hunter Biden’s business dealings. Are you comfortable with a family member profiting off of their last name in this town?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well you know, we all to some extent live so that our children can be proud of the name that we’ve given them. I have three daughters. And I want them to feel very comfortable being a Clyburn. And I do know that that is very, very important for going forward. Now, that doesn’t mean that I want them to do things that are unseemly to the name. I do want them to use the name to their benefit.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet, President Biden, according to one witness testimony, was on the phone 20 times with Hunter Biden’s business associates. It was described as pleasantries, but is that appropriate?
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Well, his associates said there were pleasantries. But I think it’s appropriate to be a father to your son. And if your son is having a problem – and we all know the history of the problem that Hunter has with addiction. And he is being a father to his son. You don’t impeach a man for being a father to his children.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congressman Jim Clyburn, thank you so much for being here. Always good to be with you.
REP. JIM CLYBURN:
Thank you very much for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We really appreciate it. And when we come back, as President Biden gets ready to join striking auto workers in Michigan, is the White House push for electric vehicles at odds with what union workers want? Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. With the UAW strike now in its second week, President Biden announced he’s traveling to Michigan on Tuesday to, quote, “join the picket line” with UAW members on strike against the nation’s leading automakers. The trip will come a day ahead of former President Trump’s plans to visit Detroit on Wednesday, and was announced just hours after the union’s president, Shawn Fain, publicly invited the president. Joining me now is the Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. Mr. Secretary, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Thanks for having me on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are going to get to the UAW strike. But first I want to talk about this potential government shutdown. All sides dug in in the Republican House, understanding that the fight is over there. But take me behind the scenes. What is President Biden, the administration, doing to try to avert a shutdown at this critical moment?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, President Biden and the Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy, reached a deal earlier this year. So the focus of the administration is to get the House Republicans to live up to a deal they already made. And by the way, that wasn’t the easiest deal to accept. It included cuts to things I was hoping to do in transportation, just to take one example. But it’s the deal that we have now. For some House Republicans to be propelling us toward a shutdown means, among other things, that air traffic control training would stop. It means that air traffic controllers, who would continue going to the towers to work, would not be getting paid. Think about how stressful of a job that is on the best of days. And now we’d be asking them to show up to work with the added stress of not getting a paycheck – not to mention, the service members not getting paid, all of the other unacceptable things that would go along with a shutdown.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And Mr. Secretary, I understand the fight is with the House. But again, if there’s a shutdown, it falls on everyone’s shoulders. There is some movement potentially in the Democratic-led Senate to try to reach a deal. Is President Biden doing anything? Why not use his bully pulpit more to try to avert this?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, again, the president is focusing on trying to get the House to honor the deal they already made. The Senate is ready to go. The administration is ready to go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does he have a role in this, though, and a responsibility?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, of course. I – and – and the most frustrating thing, of course, is that the – the president, the administration have a responsibility to make sure no matter what Congress does, that the country keeps on succeeding. And that’s what we’re doing. But we’re doing it, and he’s leading us in doing it with a focus on not allowing a shutdown to happen in the first place. And, by the way, the cuts that House Republicans are threatening the shutdown over would also cut into things–
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly.
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
–like transportation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think a shutdown is all but inevitable at this point?
SECRETARY PETE BUTTIGIEG:
It can’t be. We can’t let it be. This is no way to run the government in the most powerful nation on earth.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let’s turn to the UAW strike. President Biden, who calls himself the most pro-union president, is heading there on Tuesday, as I said, a day before former President Trump, the GOP frontrunner, is going. Is President Biden going to try to avert any potential momentum Mr. Trump could gain with union workers, that critical voting block?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Look, I think this is President Biden being who he is, which is a deeply pro-worker president, you know, not only compared to the anti-union tendencies of the Trump administration, but compared to any other modern president. President Biden is proud to be the most unapologetically pro-worker, pro-union president we’ve had. And that’s going to be on display, I think, when he’s on those picket lines. Now, he and we want the auto companies, the auto sector to succeed as well and are pushing the parties to get to a win-win deal that does right by workers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What’s a win-win deal? What does the president want to see out of this deal? Does he want the workers to get the pay increases that they’re asking for?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
What the president said is that when you have record profits in this industry, there ought to be record pay and record benefits going to the workers who are creating that value. That’s only fair. That’s only sensible. And by the way, it’s in keeping with the great tradition of how the middle class was built in the first place. My home town, South Bend, Indiana, home of UAW Local 5, Local 9, our middle class was built on those good-paying jobs. The unions and the president want to make sure that those jobs are good-paying going into the future.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me try to pin you down a little bit more because one of the other items that labor workers are asking for more controversially is a four-day work week with five days of pay. Would the president support that? Does he think that’s right?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, again, he supports them getting a record deal. He and the administration are–
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is that a yes?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
– we’re not at the table, right? We’re not part of the negotiations. We’re not doing the numbers. That’s for the companies and the unions to do. But what the president is making clear is that he is leading an economy where people need to, as he says, where the economy needs to grow from the bottom up and the middle out, not the top down. It’s a stark contrast from the economic vision you saw in the last administration, or that you see now with congressional Republicans who are more interested in corporate tax cuts and are anti-union.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me let you respond to one of the other issues at play here. Some Republicans say that the push for electric vehicles to meet emission rules ultimately will cost workers jobs. How does the White House respond to that? And do you see that as a real problem?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Workers are smarter than that. And the UAW has made clear that they are not trying to pretend that we can trap Americans in the technologies of the past. Most people who are clear-headed about this recognize the transition to that new technology, that’s already underway. It’s happening with or without us. And, under the Trump administration, they allowed China to build an edge in that. We’re making sure that that is a made in America EV revolution.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But EVs do require fewer jobs. What happens to those positions, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, you’re going to see an auto sector grow on American soil, where there will be more American jobs to be had. Yes, EVs are better vehicles, including in the sense that they have fewer moving parts, so they don’t break down as often. They also represent a huge growth area for America to reclaim more of the sector. Remember, after a manufacturing recession under the last administration, we’re seeing a manufacturing boom under this administration. This really can be a win-win-win. And to be clear, there’s no going back. I mean, this technology is coming to the global auto industry with or without us. The question is will the American workers thrive.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about what we are seeing at the border. Recently, the administration sent 800 active-duty troops to the Texas border to deal with the surge in migrants, some record numbers this past week. Was the Biden administration caught off guard by this latest surge of migrants?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Well, what you saw was the administration, as always, responding as needed to conditions, being proactive where necessary–
KRISTEN WELKER:
Were you caught off guard, though?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Look, the president did what needed to be done. And often that involves a rapid response, like the rapid response that this administration directed. But also what we see is a political dynamic where some people seem to prefer that the problem continue, rather than to do something to actually solve it. And I have to say, that kind of reminds me of what’s going down in the – going on in the funding fight, where some of the very same people who would line up to take a shot at the administration over something like air travel disruption, are also trying to disrupt us from training more air traffic controllers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mr. Secretary, just finally, I want to get your reaction to an opinion piece by David Ignatius that got a lot of attention from Democrats. Writing in the Washington Post he says of the Biden/Harris ticket, quote, “It’s painful to say that, given my admiration for much of what they have accomplished, but if he, President Biden, and Harris campaign together in 2024, I think Biden risks undoing his greatest achievement, which was stopping Trump.” How do you respond to that?
SEC. PETE BUTTIGIEG:
Winning the election was the beginning, not the end, of President Biden’s achievements. And since then, we have seen more jobs created than under any presidential term in American history. We’ve seen an infrastructure bill that so many other presidents and Congresses promised and failed to deliver. The achievements are being stacked one on top of another, and that work needs to continue in the administration. Obviously I can’t talk about the campaign side in this capacity. But look, we’ve got a lot to be proud of. And I’m proud to serve under President Biden and Vice President Harris.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Secretary Buttigieg, thank you so much for joining the program this morning. Really appreciate it. When we come back, the second Republican presidential primary debate is just days away. As the GOP struggles with an identity crisis in the age of Donald Trump, we’ll look at how one very prominent Republican wants to find his party loyalty.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. On Wednesday night, the Republican presidential candidates will meet for their second primary debate. Former President Trump is expected to skip once again. The debate will take place at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, even as the party struggles over whether to embrace or reject the politics of Reaganism. Ronald Reagan first joined this broadcast in 1966 when he was running to be governor of California as a candidate who’d switched parties. Here’s how he described himself.
[START TAPE]
RONALD REAGAN:
Since I’ve been a Republican, and I was a Democrat most of my life, I believe that you play on the team. And I have participated to the best of my ability, and I did nothing in the ’64 campaign that I didn’t do in those other campaigns.
DAVID KRASLOW:
Have your views changed substantially in any regard since the 1964 campaign?
RONALD REAGAN:
No. As a matter of fact, my views haven’t changed an awful lot since I was a Democrat. I believed then that anything, whether it came from labor, management, or government, that imposed unfairly on the individual or the freedom of the individual was tyranny and should be opposed. I still feel that way.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, President Biden has reached the highest disapproval rating of his presidency. How worried are Democrats? Plus, can Kevin McCarthy still do his job? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Peter Alexander, Amna Nawaz, co-anchor of PBS NewsHour, and Leigh Ann Caldwell, co-author of the Washington Post Early 202, and anchor of Washington Post Live. Thanks to all of you for being here today. Peter, I want to start with you. And obviously our poll has some really concerning numbers for the White House, particularly on the economy. How is the White House dealing with these broader concerns about his reelection?
PETER ALEXANDER:
Well, it’s not good news for this White House, certainly. They dismiss polls like these, national polls saying nobody votes on a national basis. It’s the states that matter. They say we’re a year out from the election. But all that acknowledges the fact that this is a big issue, both the president’s age and the issue of the economy. You showed the numbers on each of those issues. Nearly three in four Americans have a real concern about age. And it’s forced this White House, I think, to lean into two things. One is that contrast with Donald Trump, earlier than they may have wanted to based on the conversations I’m having with Democratic allies right now. We’ve heard him sort of sharpen his language. It’s the end of the spending quarter, so a lot of it’s been at fundraisers. But saying that Donald Trump is trying to destroy democracy. And they’ve also lifted up their spending, the biggest ad buy ever in battleground states this early for a reelection campaign. They had one of the first ads out of the gate, was about the trip to Ukraine the president took. It wasn’t about the issue of Ukraine. It was on the topic of stamina that gets right to the topic of his age.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That’s a really fascinating point, trying to have that show of force with him standing there with President Zelenskyy. Amna, let me pivot to you on that point, because when you look at what voters are saying, and I think we have this poll, look at how many of them say that they would potentially back a third-party candidate. If you add it all up, it adds up to 14%.
AMNA NAWAZ:
That’s right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That has to be a real concern for the White House, for Biden allies. Because of course a third-party candidate, if one does get into the race until the end –
AMNA NAWAZ:
That’s right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– the thinking is it would hurt President Biden.
AMNA NAWAZ:
And you notice a three-point difference there between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, that’s within the margin of error on these kinds of polls. So not great numbers. And also that we’re hearing, of course, Mr. Kennedy is considering a third-party run now, and he has already been polling in double digits in some cases in just looking at potential Democratic primaries. This is why every single constituency matters. And that’s why something like this UAW strike really makes a difference for President Biden, because this is the group that helped put Mr. Trump into the White House in 2016 with just enough voters there. In 2020, they broke for President Biden by about 56 to 42 over then President Trump. And in 2023 what we’re now seeing is a back-sliding in support there. When you’re talking about voters who do not have a college degree, we’ve seen a softening of support there, similar to the softening you covered earlier with Black voters, young voters, Latino voters, Independents. Each of these core groups matters. And that enthusiasm gap is huge. It’s a huge problem for the Biden administration.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The concern, Leigh Ann, that these core constituencies will stay at home. You’re talking to Democrats on Capitol Hill. What are they saying when they look at these numbers? What do they make of them, these numbers that are consistent with past numbers that we’ve seen these deep concerns about the economy?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Well, I think you hit it. And also the polls said something very similar, from what I’m hearing from Democrats. The concern about the enthusiasm, and the motivation. One thing the NBC poll pointed out today is that a majority of voters were more interested in voting for Biden because they did not like Donald Trump. And that is not a good sign for turning out the base. And so concerns on Capitol Hill are big. But people are also saying it’s kind of late to make a change.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is. And Amna, to the point that you’re making, or Peter, I should say, to the point that Amna’s making about UAW, here you’re going to have this split screen with President Biden in Michigan and then former President Trump on Wednesday in Detroit. He’s trying to counter program the GOP primary debate. But talk about the politics of this decision to go. Because some union workers on the front line say, “Don’t turn this into a political event. We want a deal.”
PETER ALEXANDER:
Well, Democratic officials, we should say, NBC News has learned had invited President Biden to come out on Labor Day to first make a visit. The president balked at that, is now going to be going after Shawn Fain, the UAW president invited him. The key takeaways here are a couple. 1) The White House is still trying to figure out exactly who the UAW President Shawn Fain is. The president doesn’t have a long relationship with him. He’s a Bernie progressive, right? So it’s made it a little bit more complicated. When the president gets out there this week, though, when you speak to Democratic allies as I have in the last couple of days, they say two things. 1) This is the most obvious thing for the president to do. This is core to who he is. But 2) they also acknowledge there’s a bit of a risk here. Because by going to the picket lines, as he plans to do, you also potentially own the outcome here. And if it’s not the one that the UAW workers like, perhaps it could be a problem. It is a delicate, tricky political scene for him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Fascinating point. Let’s turn to the shutdown, speaking of owning the outcome. Republicans are deadlocked. Leigh Ann, it doesn’t seem like there’s an end in sight.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
No.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How does this end? Are we headed toward a shutdown? What are you hearing?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
We are absolutely headed toward a shutdown. Most people think that it is a shutdown. This is a shutdown because Republicans cannot agree. It’s not a shutdown because there’s disagreement between Republicans and Democrats. And Kevin McCarthy has a choice. It is up to him on if he wants a government shutdown to try to govern with just Republicans or will he reach out to Democrats and try to avoid a shutdown? We haven’t seen that yet.
PETER ALEXANDER:
I would just say the way we’re seeing the president this week, this is a big week for the president because he’s going to be going to Arizona the day after the debate by the Republicans, right? And the focus is it’s been all about democracy, we had heard. He’s going to McCain Institute. But it’s also about one other thing: bipartisanship. And in large part, that’s a reaction to what we’re seeing happening on the Hill right now, that the White House is trying to brand as the Republican shutdown. Susan Collins even acknowledges things like this don’t go well for Republicans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Amna, it’s true. If there’s a shutdown you have Republicans saying, “Historically, we bear the brunt of that. That’s going to hurt us.”
AMNA NAWAZ:
You have some Republicans saying that right. You have Speaker McCarthy saying that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, some Republicans.
AMNA NAWAZ:
You have Senate Republicans saying that.
AMNA NAWAZ:
I spoke with House Freedom Caucus member, South Carolina Congressman Ralph Norman last week. He said, “It’s 100% sure they are heading towards a shutdown.” And look, Kristen, the math ain’t mathing, right? There’s just a certain amount of days left. Norman said that they want to see a top-line number. They had previously offered 1.471. They haven’t seen a top-line number from leadership, yes. But yeah, the idea is if there is a shutdown, it hurts the economy. We know that to be true. And Republicans could end up bearing most of that. I will say, to bring it full circle on this, if the economy does get hit, that’s also bad for this president, though. Because you see inflation coming down, unemployment at historic lows. They need the economy to be doing better to strengthen their campaign next year.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, fantastic conversation. Thank you all of you. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We’ll be back next week, because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.